Discussion:
Mark 1:1 (not all Bibles are created equal)
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mdcunning
2004-09-07 23:38:06 UTC
Permalink
Mark 1:1 (not all Bibles are created equal)
The following Comparisons are an example of the type of critical look
you will find looking into Bible Versions at www.trueword.org

Just because some get this verse right, don't assume they are good.
All of them agree with the KJV now and then, but the Truth is
unchanging, it is the same Yesterday, Today and forever.

Mark 01:01
[KJV] THE Beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
[NKJ] The Beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
[NIV] The beginning of the gospel about Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 1
[TNI] The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, 2,3
[NWT] [The] beginning of the good news about Jesus Christ:
[NAB] The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ [the Son of God]. 4
[ASV] The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God
[YLT] A beginning of the good news of Jesus Christ, Son of God.
[DRB] Beginning of the glad tidings of Jesus Christ, Son of God;
[NLT] Here begins the Good News about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God. 5
[RSV] The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 6
[AMP] THE BEGINNING [of the facts] of the good news (the Gospel) if Jesus
Christ, 7 the Son of God.
[WEB] The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God
[BEV] The first words of the good news of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
[GNM] This is the Good News about Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 8
[HCS] The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
[MSG] The good news of Jesus Christ --the Message! begins here
[HCS] The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
[ESV] The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 9
[NCV] This is the beginning of the Good News aboout Jesus Christ, the son of
God, 10
[GWT] This is the beginning of the Good News about Jesus Christ, the Son of
God.

1: Some manuscripts do not have the Son of God.
2: Or Jesus Christ. "Messiah" (Hebrew) and "Christ" (Greek) both mean
"Anointed One."
3: Many manuscripts Messiah, the Son of God
4: notes not included here due to length
5: Some manuscripts do not include the Son of God.
6: Other ancient authorities omit the Son of God.
7: Some manuscripts do not contain this phrase.
8: Some manuscripts do not have the Son of God.
9: Some manuscripts omit the Son of God
10:the Son of God Some Greek copies omit these words.

Mark 01:01
where the words [gospel, Christ, the Son of God] are found in Verse
(without some form of discredit)
[KJV] gospel Christ, the Son of God;
[NKJ] gospel Christ, the Son of God.
[NIV] gospel Christ, the Son of God.
[ASV] gospel Christ, the Son of God
[WEB] gospel Christ, the Son of God
[HCS] gospel Christ, the Son of God.
[HCS] gospel Christ, the Son of God.
[NAB] gospel Christ
[RSV] gospel Christ,
[ESV] gospel Christ,
[BEV] Christ, the Son of God.
[GWT] Christ, the Son of God.
[YLT] Christ, Son of God.
[DRB] Christ, Son of God;
[NWT] Christ:
[AMP] Christ,
[GNM] Christ,
[MSG] Christ
[NCV] Christ,
[NLT]
[TNI]

[NKJ] New King James Version 1982
[NIV] New International Version 1973, 1978, 1984
[TNI] Today New International Version (New Testament) 2002
[NWT] New World Translation 1961, 1981, 1984
[NAB] New American Bible 1970, 1986
[ASV] American Standard Version 1917
[YLT] Young's Literal Translation Public Domain
[DRB] Darby Translation Public Domain
[NLT] New Living Translation 1996
[RSV] Revised Standard Version 1946nt, 1952ot, 1971nt
[AMP] Amplified Bible 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987
[WEB] World English Bible
[BEV] Basic English Version
[GNM] Good News for Modern Man (New Testament) 1992
[HCS] Holman Christian Standard Bible 1999,2000,2002,2003
[MSG] The Message 2004
[HCS] Holman Christian Standard Bible 1999,2000,2002,2003
[ESV] English Standard Version 2001,2002
[NCV] New Century Version 1987,1988,1991,2003
[GWT] God's Word Translation 1995,2003
l***@aol.com
2004-09-21 04:23:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by mdcunning
Mark 1:1 (not all Bibles are created equal)
The following Comparisons are an example of the type of critical look
you will find looking into Bible Versions at www.trueword.org
Just because some get this verse right, don't assume they are good.
All of them agree with the KJV now and then, but the Truth is
unchanging, it is the same Yesterday, Today and forever.
Mark 01:01
Lintpicking.
Brian
2004-09-21 05:39:24 UTC
Permalink
While this may be small potatoes, there are several examples of much larger
differences between the versions.

Brian
Post by l***@aol.com
Post by mdcunning
Mark 1:1 (not all Bibles are created equal)
The following Comparisons are an example of the type of critical look
you will find looking into Bible Versions at www.trueword.org
Just because some get this verse right, don't assume they are good.
All of them agree with the KJV now and then, but the Truth is
unchanging, it is the same Yesterday, Today and forever.
Mark 01:01
Lintpicking.
l***@aol.com
2004-09-22 05:40:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian
While this may be small potatoes, there are several examples of much larger
differences between the versions.
And there are as many or more from the realities of translation
difficulty in all of them. For example, whole doctrines claiming a
false 3rd kind of God's customized, individualized will for us have
been derived from small translation deficiencies in the <gasp> KJV.
Has not God promised that who who see His truths will find them?

I don't like many of the oft-cited "suspect" versions, either, and
find some of their editorship & publishing circumstances even worse,
if not outright occultic - but that is no excuse for not knowing God's
truths. We are not "victims of errant translators", but rather people
who don't like having to think & reason biblically & who resist God's
hard truths. Standing before God, "someone else made me believe this
way" won't cut it. It is just another rendition of: "the Devil made
me do it."
Steve Goltra
2004-09-22 22:07:09 UTC
Permalink
Frank posted: "And there are as many or more from the realities of
translation
Post by l***@aol.com
difficulty in all of them. For example, whole doctrines claiming a
false 3rd kind of God's customized, individualized will for us have
been derived from small translation deficiencies in the <gasp> KJV.
Has not God promised that who who see His truths will find them?"
Steve's response: What, where, how, & why? Don't answer in a broad, polemic,
long winded post without documenting what you are trying to prove. We all
know your abilities with the English language. It is excellent. Now, prove
what you are saying, instead of just going on and on. Where exactly is this
found, what are talking about? Give us a specific example.

Frank posted: "I don't like many of the oft-cited "suspect" versions,
either, and
Post by l***@aol.com
find some of their editorship & publishing circumstances even worse,
if not outright occultic - but that is no excuse for not knowing God's
truths. We are not "victims of errant translators", but rather people
who don't like having to think & reason biblically & who resist God's
hard truths. Standing before God, "someone else made me believe this
way" won't cut it. It is just another rendition of: "the Devil made
me do it."
Steve's response: There you go again, with your rambling, graceless
response. God is the one who will judge us, not you. God will not judge us
by our pristine understanding and mastery of his Word and His Truth, but by
what He sees in our hearts. He is the one that makes the decision, and that
decision might take place when we are 5 years old or 109 years old. On our
part, all that we have to do is to believe God. There are no works attached
to this belief because Jesus Christ did all of the work on the Cross and at
the resurrection from the dead.

<snipped>
l***@aol.com
2004-09-23 14:00:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Goltra
God will not judge us
by our pristine understanding and mastery of his Word and His Truth, but by
what He sees in our hearts.
A dangerous & total falshood found nowhere in the word of God to us.
God tells us plainly that He shall judge our *words* and *actions*,
and not our motives & emotions. You misunderstand what "heart" means
in the bible (actionable mind, not seat of emotions) and are still
decieved accordingly with psychologicized, worldly thinking. I don't
expect you will receive this, but another reading the NG may.

I elect not to waste my time on you for any of the rest of your idle
ravings, wrestings, NG addiction/clutter & personal junk, and as I
told you awhile ago, in your case I am busy for the next 10 years.
Steve Goltra
2004-09-23 17:58:43 UTC
Permalink
Frank said:"I elect not to waste my time on you for any of the rest of your
idle
Post by l***@aol.com
ravings, wrestings, NG addiction/clutter & personal junk, and as I
told you awhile ago, in your case I am busy for the next 10 years."
Steve's response: In that case, if you will not respond to me, then respond
to another on this newsgroup that posted the following, that you have never
answered. In fact, after this was posted on 8/3/2004 you not only did not
respond to it, you have not posted anything till the past several days:

"On 8/3/2004 Jerry posted the following, that was referring directly to you.
YOU HAVE NEVER BOTHERED TO RESPOND TO JERRY'S POST, YOU JUST DISAPPEARED.
This was Jerry's post, addressed to John, but directed to you:

Hi John: My post was directed at Frank because he has a different take on
grace and forgiveness that the rest of body of Christ put together. His
intelligence and expertise with the English language has given him an
inflated ego and lack of understanding of the simplicity of the Gospel. When
the Jews asked Christ how they might "work the works of God, He answered
them saying-This is the work of God, that you believe on Him (Christ) who He
has sent "(John 6:28-29). Frank is focused on works, as well as even keeping
some of his sin (he has said this in one of his posts). He is just as
focused on Divorce and remarriage as Elijah is focused on the Sabbath. Frank
has absolutely no understanding or interest in God's grace, and God's
miracles, and God's involvement in our daily lives.

We are all only a heart beat away from being babbling idiots. A stroke, or
a bad fall, and we may no longer be able to even carry on a conversation,
much less reason with others. If this situation happened to you or me, John,
we would have no problem in knowing that we are saved- Saved by what Christ
did for us on that Cross on Calvary. Frank on the other hand is not sure of
his salvation now, and continues to "work" to receive it. Salvation is a
free gift, especially for those that believe!

We should all pray for Frank, and not waste our time trying to reason with
him.

???????????
Post by l***@aol.com
Post by Steve Goltra
God will not judge us
by our pristine understanding and mastery of his Word and His Truth, but by
what He sees in our hearts.
A dangerous & total falshood found nowhere in the word of God to us.
God tells us plainly that He shall judge our *words* and *actions*,
and not our motives & emotions. You misunderstand what "heart" means
in the bible (actionable mind, not seat of emotions) and are still
decieved accordingly with psychologicized, worldly thinking. I don't
expect you will receive this, but another reading the NG may.
Steve Goltra
2004-09-23 17:58:54 UTC
Permalink
Frank said:"A dangerous & total falshood found nowhere in the word of God to
us.
Post by l***@aol.com
God tells us plainly that He shall judge our *words* and *actions*,
and not our motives & emotions. You misunderstand what "heart" means
in the bible (actionable mind, not seat of emotions) and are still
decieved accordingly with psychologicized, worldly thinking. I don't
expect you will receive this, but another reading the NG may."
Steve's response:
What about the thief on the Cross, what type of works did he have to
perform, what did he have to do to be saved?
What about the new Chinese believer, that accepts Christ as Lord one day,
and is killed the next day by the Chinese
Government? What works has he performed to receive the eternal life that he
is promised in Gods word, the Bible. What about the dying man, that at the
last second of his life, accepts Christ as Lord. Even though he cannot
speak, God knows of his decision. I have difficulty with everything you post
because of your hidden agenda of works, and the fact that you even boast of
"keeping your sin". You are a wolf in sheep's clothing, and what you have to
say is nothing more than the words whispered into Eve's ear by Satan "Ye
shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then
your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
(Gen 3:5)

Our righteousness is imputed to us by what Christ has done for us, both on
the Cross and at the Resurrection. That is the truth while you continue to
focus on the lie of works.

God bless,

Steve Goltra
Post by l***@aol.com
Post by Steve Goltra
God will not judge us
by our pristine understanding and mastery of his Word and His Truth, but by
what He sees in our hearts.
A dangerous & total falshood found nowhere in the word of God to us.
God tells us plainly that He shall judge our *words* and *actions*,
and not our motives & emotions. You misunderstand what "heart" means
in the bible (actionable mind, not seat of emotions) and are still
decieved accordingly with psychologicized, worldly thinking. I don't
expect you will receive this, but another reading the NG may.
I elect not to waste my time on you for any of the rest of your idle
ravings, wrestings, NG addiction/clutter & personal junk, and as I
told you awhile ago, in your case I am busy for the next 10 years.
Brian
2004-09-27 00:41:01 UTC
Permalink
Words and actions as judgment criteria? What happened to faith? I guess
this is why people so often quote EPHESIANS 2:8.

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from
yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Brian
Post by l***@aol.com
Post by Steve Goltra
God will not judge us
by our pristine understanding and mastery of his Word and His Truth, but by
what He sees in our hearts.
A dangerous & total falshood found nowhere in the word of God to us.
God tells us plainly that He shall judge our *words* and *actions*,
and not our motives & emotions. You misunderstand what "heart" means
in the bible (actionable mind, not seat of emotions) and are still
decieved accordingly with psychologicized, worldly thinking. I don't
expect you will receive this, but another reading the NG may.
I elect not to waste my time on you for any of the rest of your idle
ravings, wrestings, NG addiction/clutter & personal junk, and as I
told you awhile ago, in your case I am busy for the next 10 years.
l***@aol.com
2004-09-24 03:23:17 UTC
Permalink
NOte: may appear out-of-order in thread, thread not detected by
Post by Steve Goltra
What about the thief on the Cross, what type of works did he have to
perform, what did he have to do to be saved?<more repetition snipped>
For the benefit of any other readers: Who said anything about
salvation or salvation-by-works? Anyone who knows their bible knows
that it applies to *saved believers*.
Post by Steve Goltra
I have difficulty with everything you post
because of your hidden agenda of works, and the fact that you even boast of
"keeping your sin". You are a wolf in sheep's clothing, and what you have to
say is nothing more than the words whispered into Eve's ear by Satan "Ye
shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then
your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
(Gen 3:5)
As you can see, there is no end to this person's false personal
attacks, personification of precepts, mischaracterizations, idle
gossip with no foundation, and continual vain attempts to preach at
God's people rather than doing it to the lost out in the world in real
life where it is risky & costly & requires hard work. How sad.
Post by Steve Goltra
Our righteousness is imputed to us by what Christ has done for us, both on
the Cross and at the Resurrection. That is the truth while you continue to
focus on the lie of works.
More of the same, piled higher & deeper. Folks, this is what happens
to people who get addicted to NG's & delusional thinking about "online
ministry and fellowship." Don't ask me how I once proved it myself,
before I was delivered from it. Please don't let it happen to you.

Often, the *real* "difficulty" such a one has, is with God's
directives that one must also FOLLOW THE LORD in order to be a saved
believer (Luke 9:23-24, & elsewhere throughout the book) - and
"following the Lord" gets called a "work" they are unwilling to do.
No wonder Jesus was the biggest crowd-thinner Who ever lived.
Thousands were willing to "fully believe" their way - but by the time
He was done only 120 were willing to believe HIS way.

The theif on the cross followed the Lord His way to the utmost extent
possible while unable to do anything but continue enduring a horrific
death agony. If his few loud words to the public of great faith &
truth under these conditions were not a great work, then someone needs
to either redefine "work" or cut the book of James & a great many
words of Jesus & His apostles out of their bible. You & I are most
likely NOT hanging in physical crucifixion and are NOT the theif on
the cross, as our excuse for doing nothing else to follow the Lord! A
favorite tactic of those serving the devil or self, is to accuse those
who stay the difficult course of correct doctrine of "serving the
devil." Expect it, and do not be discouraged or waste any time
arguing with them. EVERY idle word shall be judged, we are promised.
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